Do you believe in the supernatural? (plus other mumbojumbo)

**Gasman40** Tue Sep 27, 2011 4:57 pm

It's been a little quiet so i thought i'd start a new thread.

My girlfriend and i had a little rowel tonight over this topic. I don't believe in the supernatural as well as other things like by chance knowing when something bad is going to happen to someone or when females who are really close (as friends i mena) have their periods align (yes she used that as an example). My girlfriend on the other hand does believe in this (kinda) and it caused quite a stir. I used logic to counter her argument and it was a constant argument of if's, ands or buts on her behalf. It was frustrating to say the least cos it was so generalised-.-

so what do you think? is it real or a crock of shit?

**sparton** Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:16 pm

I'm 50 50.
Some of the shit people say sounds absolute bullshit, but then their are some documentaries I have seen about the supernatural that seemed real. Just a matter of opinion.

**wottagunn** Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:15 pm

all bollocks
the supernatural, religion, ufo's, ghosts and everything else is all shit.

**MARSTA-J** Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:29 am

Haha me and the mrs have had this type of debate to...

But shes more into believing in psychics
And I am not..

Apparently her aunt does the card reading and read/sense the future stuff, and she must have bought the mrs up with it, because she belives in it 2 far...

to me, i call them, an experienced estimate'r HAH...

**mrcrowley24** Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:15 am

Yeah not really, but it sure makes for good cinema and books!

Draxxx Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:50 am

Yes and No for me.
I know there is alot of stuff we as a species do not know. This applies alot to things like psychics. I definitely believe in our intuitive abilities, how & why this works I donot.
Things like card reading is more chance, and our minds 'make believe' its legit to satisfy the belief and fill the gaps. Same for horoscopes. Generic readings that comprise of 80% common happenings, our mind says its real. (Think "You will mean an attractive stranger", "You'll wish you stayed in bed today" well duh.)

Period synchronisation is more a biological, chemical based reaction that can be tied back to hormones/endocrine system. That, I believe is possible.

UFO's - Maybe. I find it difficult to believe we're the only intelligent living creature in this vast, vast universe. Whether or not they've been here, or could find us, or even give a rats about us, I donot know.

I believe Religion is a system of control. Nothing more. Believe whatever you want.

Ghosts, maybe, see the first point about not knowing everything. But probably not. Mind you, if you've ever had an "experience" I'm sure you would.

I'm a scientist (by education) so I need proof to believe something. I rely heavily on logic. If it can't be proved then it probably doesn't exist.

**Gasman40** Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:27 am

Hmm, i don't dismiss all of it. Ghosts and card reading and all that crap i do not believe. Mainly because it is ridiculous and there is no way it could be done. More often then not you find that only a certain few can experience it under certain circumstances at certain times. when you get to the point where only some people can experience these events it becomes too unreliable and is usually shit. If something can be proven 100% of the time no doubt i'll believe it. When i comes down to generalisations including if's, ands or buts then i don't believe it.

Things like UFO's i can understand but i do not believe there has been a legitimate siting. It all seems too cliché when there are sitings and only 1/2 people claim to have seen them. not to say one day we won't find life, but i don't think we've seen aliens here on earth

I think the whole thing is annoying because i keep finding the argument is like religion (sorry to anyone who believes but this is my point of view). When people say that the supernatural is real but have no proof, there isn't a whole lot to stand up on. Science is continuously proving things and is making them part of day to day life. Religion is based on a book written many hundreds of years after the death of christ and makes no sense. When your argument hasn't got any foundations to stand on and your only comeback is that "you can't prove it's not real" i think you've hit a brick wall. The supernatural is the same as this, while you can use science and logic to explain odd events, the reply back is "yeah, but there is alway a possibility that it's not caused by science and it's the supernatural".

**towelie777-2** Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:47 am

you'll have to wait till you die gasman, then post again.

**tristo8** Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:42 pm

wottagunn wrote:all bollocks
the supernatural, religion, ufo's, ghosts and everything else is all shit.

Thank-you. I have been saying for years The Bible is the biggest fiction novel of all time.

If you believe Jesus can turn Water to wine (without the use of a soda stream) then you're an idiot

haha

**sparton** Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:46 pm

you have to love the people that claim to have been abducted by UFO's.
And that shit makes the news Very Happy

**capnwpac** Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:49 am

I do not believe in supernatural anything. I love the shows and books though.
Greek mythology is the best.

@gas re: religion -
I know you weren't possibly intending to be so blunt, but you shouldn't look at religion so negatively.
Religion is about hope. That is all it is about.
Hope that there is something better after this life.
I love the morals and guidelines that religions set out, it makes the world a better place.

If half the population of the planet weren't religious, then stealing, killing, heck, even general bullying would be more prevalent.
Religions help develop consciences.
Parenting could do a better job, but there are too many shite parents out there. Luckily a lot of shite parents still force their kids to go to church.

So basically I'm saying you shouldn't argue with people about belief, it's their choice. It doesn't affect you in any way.

Side note: One of my favourite sayings of all time comes from a religion. It's Buddhism I think?

"Existence is suffering"

**BUZURK** Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:15 am

wottagunn wrote:all bollocks
the supernatural, religion, ufo's, ghosts and everything else is all shit.

Couldn't of said it any better

**Gasman40** Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:32 am

Okay, away from the religion, We all agree that the supernatural is rubbish? (most of us)

**capnwpac** Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:52 am

100% garbage

**sparton** Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:08 am

garbage.

**driftpig222** Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:03 am

capnwpac wrote:
@gas re: religion -
I know you weren't possibly intending to be so blunt, but you shouldn't look at religion so negatively.
Religion is about hope. That is all it is about.
Hope that there is something better after this life.
if this was true why would the pope care about condoms, why is the acl so intent on censorship, why do christians shoot abortion doctors?
I love the morals and guidelines that religions set out, it makes the world a better place.
are honour killings, stonings, and beheadings etc making the world a better place?
If half the population of the planet weren't religious, then stealing, killing, heck, even general bullying would be more prevalent.
murder and crime rates in norway, sweden, and denmark are pretty fucking low mate, compare that to some of the higher percentage theist countries
Religions help develop consciences.
and yet christian usa bombed japanese civilians, jewish israel bombs palestinians, muslims ugh...
Parenting could do a better job, but there are too many shite parents out there. Luckily a lot of shite parents still force their kids to go to church.
where they occasionally get molestered...
So basically I'm saying you shouldn't argue with people about belief, it's their choice. It doesn't affect you in any way.
you believe in freedom of religion but not freedom of speech?

that last line ugh why do you think there is even debate about abortion, euthanasia, same sex marriage etc in liberal societies. pretty sure this affects people

my 2c

**capnwpac** Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:36 am

You OK mate?

That clearly was all fairly generalized. Thinking about the worst side of things is not a positive thing to do.
I'm speaking from experience, and VERY generally.

I work in social security. People on welfare without being unfair are the ones who end up in prisons, more so than those who are well off.
As a general rule, those who are religious, whatever their religion may be, find alternatives to welfare and crime - that is all I am saying.

Yes. Religion is about hope. At it's core, that's why all religions were founded. Can't disagree with that.
That sentence has nothing to do with anything else within the religions, or the bullshit and propaganda that comes from religious figures. I'm not going to argue all those facts, because I myself am not religious.

With that last line.... ahhhh what? Haha. Didn't mean to strike a cord if I did, sorry man.

I'll try articulate better - Do not force your opinions on other people, unless their opinions (in this case, beliefs) are harmful to you.
It is not your place to tell people what they should or shouldn't believe. You can educate, but never should you impose.

Free speech and talking out of turn are different. You can't get away with saying anything just because you believe in free speech.
I'm not sure I did a better job that time.... but yeah, that sentence was not pertaining to only religion.

**capnwpac** Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:37 am

driftpig222 wrote:
capnwpac wrote:
@gas re: religion -
I know you weren't possibly intending to be so blunt, but you shouldn't look at religion so negatively.
Religion is about hope. That is all it is about.
Hope that there is something better after this life.
if this was true why would the pope care about condoms, why is the acl so intent on censorship, why do christians shoot abortion doctors?
I love the morals and guidelines that religions set out, it makes the world a better place.
are honour killings, stonings, and beheadings etc making the world a better place?
If half the population of the planet weren't religious, then stealing, killing, heck, even general bullying would be more prevalent.
murder and crime rates in norway, sweden, and denmark are pretty fucking low mate, compare that to some of the higher percentage theist countries
Religions help develop consciences.
and yet christian usa bombed japanese civilians, jewish israel bombs palestinians, muslims ugh...
Parenting could do a better job, but there are too many shite parents out there. Luckily a lot of shite parents still force their kids to go to church.
where they occasionally get molestered...
So basically I'm saying you shouldn't argue with people about belief, it's their choice. It doesn't affect you in any way.
you believe in freedom of religion but not freedom of speech?

that last line ugh why do you think there is even debate about abortion, euthanasia, same sex marriage etc in liberal societies. pretty sure this affects people

my 2c

Re-read this. I'm not going to pick this apart, because I agree with you.
I do however think that you've completely misread my point. Very sorry if I offended.

**driftpig222** Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:19 am

capnwpac wrote:You OK mate?

That clearly was all fairly generalized. Thinking about the worst side of things is not a positive thing to do.
I'm speaking from experience, and VERY generally.

I work in social security. People on welfare without being unfair are the ones who end up in prisons, more so than those who are well off.
As a general rule, those who are religious, whatever their religion may be, find alternatives to welfare and crime - that is all I am saying.

Yes. Religion is about hope. At it's core, that's why all religions were founded. Can't disagree with that.
That sentence has nothing to do with anything else within the religions, or the bullshit and propaganda that comes from religious figures. I'm not going to argue all those facts, because I myself am not religious.

With that last line.... ahhhh what? Haha. Didn't mean to strike a cord if I did, sorry man.

I'll try articulate better - Do not force your opinions on other people, unless their opinions (in this case, beliefs) are harmful to you.
It is not your place to tell people what they should or shouldn't believe. You can educate, but never should you impose.

Free speech and talking out of turn are different. You can't get away with saying anything just because you believe in free speech.
I'm not sure I did a better job that time.... but yeah, that sentence was not pertaining to only religion.

lol im good mate, how are you? you didn't strike a cord and im not the type to get offended. i just disagree with what you said

i can appreciate you talking from experience but do you really know the religious beliefs of all the people you deal with? if there were figures showing atheists make up a higher percentage of prison populations than the normal population id be suprised

i think scientology was founded to make money. it's pretty hard to speculate on why judaism, christianity, islam were founded; i wasn't there. it's up for interpretation really and completely subjective

what's the difference between forcing an opinion and stating one? where's the line? im not trying to indoctrinate anyone im just speaking my mind. if what i think offends someone should i not be able to say it?

i don't think i missed your point, i understand the positive side of the argument i just don't think religion is the answer

**capnwpac** Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:35 am

It's not about offending them though, it's about whether what they believe affects you.

A real life example I'll give you - My sister has a friend who is stupidly religious. She constantly makes references to the Bible and Catholicism in general.
She says nothing offensive, and it doesn't impede on me or what I'm doing whatsoever.

I do however disagree with everything she says.
What gives me the right to stop her and say 'sorry sweetie, you're wrong. it's all bullshit. god doesn't exist.'?
I have achieved nothing by doing that. I haven't averted harm or made anything easier for myself.

My point is not at all about standing up for yourself, or agreeing with other people. My point is that no one has the right to put someone down, if the only person that opinion affects is the individual who holds it.
Gah I really suck at articulating this.

RE: Atheism - I made no remark indicating that Atheism = Criminal.
Atheism goes hand in hand with intelligence, I am a firm believer of that.

I'm talking about the lazy inbetweeners. They haven't renounced a god. They haven't made a conscious choice that there is no afterlife for reason x, x and x.

The ones I mean are the ones who have had no guidance.
Religion, as horrible as the big picture of Religions can be, is a GREAT starting point for guidance. Good guidance. (Again, general comment).

I had heaps more.... but I've lost where I was at.
Before I continue, am I making more sense?

PS: I'm great. We should play some Borderlands or something sometime.

**driftpig222** Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:28 pm

capnwpac wrote:It's not about offending them though, it's about whether what they believe affects you.
i've already stated ways their beliefs affect people...

A real life example I'll give you - My sister has a friend who is stupidly religious. She constantly makes references to the Bible and Catholicism in general.
She says nothing offensive, and it doesn't impede on me or what I'm doing whatsoever.

I do however disagree with everything she says.
What gives me the right to stop her and say 'sorry sweetie, you're wrong. it's all bullshit. god doesn't exist.'?
I have achieved nothing by doing that. I haven't averted harm or made anything easier for myself.
i'm not advocating this, just so you know
My point is not at all about standing up for yourself, or agreeing with other people. My point is that no one has the right to put someone down, if the only person that opinion affects is the individual who holds it.
Gah I really suck at articulating this.

RE: Atheism - I made no remark indicating that Atheism = Criminal.
Atheism goes hand in hand with intelligence, I am a firm believer of that.
i was referring to this
As a general rule, those who are religious, whatever their religion may be, find alternatives to welfare and crime - that is all I am saying.

the implication that irreligious people in the same situations dont find those alternatives and wind up in prison

I'm talking about the lazy inbetweeners. They haven't renounced a god. They haven't made a conscious choice that there is no afterlife for reason x, x and x.

The ones I mean are the ones who have had no guidance.
Religion, as horrible as the big picture of Religions can be, is a GREAT starting point for guidance. Good guidance. (Again, general comment).
dont you think education would be more useful? for social mobility and morality
i dont think the ends justifies the means when you're giving people easy answers you dont even believe in

I had heaps more.... but I've lost where I was at.
Before I continue, am I making more sense?
yess

PS: I'm great. We should play some Borderlands or something sometime.
you're not getting r3?

**driftpig222** Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:08 pm

forgot my link

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/12/nearly_70_of_world_population.html

religious countries hate (religious) freedom, who knew?

**tristo8** Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:29 pm

Loving this topic.

Kudos to Tom for getting 4 posts out of Drifty Smile

Very entertaining post

**BUZURK** Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:32 am

Zeitgeist
look up full movie on youtube or google it

**sparton** Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:47 am

tristo8 wrote:Loving this topic.

Kudos to Tom for getting 4 posts out of Drifty

Very entertaining post

i reckon. Great topic to debate over. Plus drifty made so many posts in here.

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