Do you believe in the supernatural? (plus other mumbojumbo)

Yeah you aren't following me, as I've stated though possibly just my articulation.

Deciding that statements have implications is very easy, a common tactic for politicians or lawyers.
Basically, with that, you are deciding that what I have left out of the comment, must be the worst possible scenario.

I'll start again.

First point: Do not force opinions upon other people, when their differing opinions have no adverse affects towards yourself.
With this, I am talking about a HIGHLY local level. One person. Not an organisation.
You can't tell someone not to be Catholic because you heard about a Priest who once raped a young boy. That's unfair.
Has the person you have now made question their existence ever raped anyone?

Second point: Religion is a great moral educator
It is a great moral educator. You CAN NOT deny this.
Education is always most effective when it is delivered harshly. People don't take things in if they a) aren't interested, or b) don't think they have anything to gain from it.
Most Religions dictate that you must live your life X way (General comment, I don't know the lore of every Religion on the planet) which is quite often a fairly pleasant and peaceful way to live - or if you don't live this way, risk a horrid existence post death.
Now, to save 'implications', I AM NOT saying that there aren't other great places for people to learn good values, all I am saying is the Religion can be a place to learn great values.
Values. Morals. Good behavior.
Social mobility? Well that comes down to more things than good behavior. You need to be able to talk and write. Why is that anything to do with what I am saying?
If inadvertently I've implied that I feel people shouldn't attend school, I apologise. I don't know how it's gotten to that though.

While we are on the topic, and since it has been brought up, No, schools are not a good place to learn good values. Even Religious based schools.
You will generally only do well at school (in every regard, with friends, grades etc) if you have solid support externally.
If there is a person attending the greatest school in the country, where magically they each get 1 teach per student, and at the end of the day that person has to go home and spend a weekend with parents that do drugs and abuse each other, that kid has very little chance succeeding.
If there was another person, attending an average school, and at the end of each day this child goes home to parents who want him to go to church with them on Sunday. High chance those parents are going to ask about homework, what the teachers are like, how the child's friends are etc.

So no, I believe, and you can disagree if you like, that values come from the household first and foremost.

Third.... well it's not really a point, but I feel I need to touch on it
I have never said that people who aren't Religious are going to commit crimes. The fact that it has been read that way really upsets me.
Please do not create implications from anything I type. My points always consist of all the content that they require. Anything not said in my posts, is likely not even thought of, or not relevant.

Let's try and rephrase, or perhaps put it in a way that does make everyone see what I mean.
Jeez this is difficult, I can see this being picked apart, which I might have to start doing to make my points more clear.
OK, I think I've got it, I'll approach from the opposite angle.

You have two people, one of them has been going to church their whole life, had a good family and a good group of friends.
The other grew up in a family that didn't care. This person was put into the care of Department of Human Services. He moved around a lot, between different foster homes and child refuges.
He never stayed at one school, and never was taught about any Religion.

Looking at that scenario, tell me, one of them commits a petty crime later in life, steals a car. Who is it?

PLEASE do not say I've implied anything, because I haven't. What I am trying so hard to convey is, that had child B been attending a church, he would have been told about how crimes can affect your chances of getting to heaven. Load of bullshit, I agree - but being human that instills us with a fear that we will never shake. It is something that will always be thought about before we do anything wrong.
Sure, in my case, an extreme one, you'd still peg child B as the culprit, even if he went to church, but isn't it at least one more thing that we could use to help this kid learn good morals?








At the end of the day, all I am saying is that I don't think any of us have the right to tell another individual that their beliefs are bogus. All I tried to do is point out a couple of positives to Religion.

I haven't proof read that btw, feel too sick.

Fuck this, just typed the longest reply in history, and the web page froze.

Drifty, you aren't reading what I am writing, at least in the way I'm writing it.
You keep reading what isn't there.

I'll rewrite my response in the morning, it will take a while.

God damn it.... now I went and edited drifty's post instead of hitting reply....
and it was a good post too...

fcuk, trying to figure out how to get it back

Nope. I fucked it...
I remember the content though, I will still reply.
Can I be a pain in the arse though and ask you to repost a link to that video?

ahahhaha fuck

skip to 5m27s i think

sister showed me this. Pretty funny.

http://www.quickmeme.com/Advice-God/

Sorry if i'm extremely late, great debate by the way.
Just wanted to respond to this.

capnwpac wrote:
You have two people, one of them has been going to church their whole life, had a good family and a good group of friends.
The other grew up in a family that didn't care. This person was put into the care of Department of Human Services. He moved around a lot, between different foster homes and child refuges.
He never stayed at one school, and never was taught about any Religion.

Looking at that scenario, tell me, one of them commits a petty crime later in life, steals a car. Who is it?

PLEASE do not say I've implied anything, because I haven't. What I am trying so hard to convey is, that had child B been attending a church, he would have been told about how crimes can affect your chances of getting to heaven. Load of bullshit, I agree - but being human that instills us with a fear that we will never shake. It is something that will always be thought about before we do anything wrong.
Sure, in my case, an extreme one, you'd still peg child B as the culprit, even if he went to church, but isn't it at least one more thing that we could use to help this kid learn good morals?

I think the main difference in the two children here is that one had the guidance and safety of a well structured home life and the other didn't.
There lays the biggest change in morality and social behavior.
Religion would change little to a child's morals if they didn't have a safety net of friends and family to back it up.

I agree 100%.

My major point, which I continuously fail to communicate, because drifty is too good at tearing my terrible articulation apart, is that Religion is ONE OF the alternate ways that a person/child can get a good set of morals.

Obviously a well structured family trumps a priest any day.

Especially a pedophile priest


Re: Religulous, seen it, loved it.